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Partial Pueblo Support

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Posted by Tricuspa   USA  (13 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Tue 18 Jul 2006 03:17 PM (UTC)
Message
I just started checking out Pueblo Enhanced MUCK and find it isn't showin CR (no line breaks). I turned on a warning message and it uses <CODE> </CODE> but mushclient doesn't recognize those.

I went ahead and checked the forums and couldn't find something like that issue. Is there any temporary workaround such as a trigger or any suggestions?

This is for Metropolis Universalis MUCK
mumuck.com 18886 (Pueblo enhanced port)

Per Nick...

> Having said my standard response :) I checked the source - > it doesn't seem to look for the <code> tag at all, however > <pre> is supported and honours newlines.

> I think to be consistent with HTML they want to use <pre> > which requests that the page be displayed honouring
> inbuilt line breaks, same as HTML. <code> really means to
> use a fixed-space font, which MUSHclient does anyway as
> the default.

Then the response from me was

I spoke to the Site Wiz and they informed me they would have to do a recompile of protomuck in order to support PRE, if proto even support it in the first place. Any other workarounds?

Of which Nick responded

> Please join my forum and re-post the question there.
>
> http://www.gammon.com.au/forum/
>
>If this issue comes up again any private discussion we have >here will have to be repeated.

And so here we go!
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (21,321 posts)  [Biography] bio   Forum Administrator
Date Reply #1 on Tue 18 Jul 2006 09:58 PM (UTC)

Amended on Tue 18 Jul 2006 10:54 PM (UTC) by Nick Gammon

Message
Your problem is that line breaks are not being rendered, and the MUCK is using the <code> tag to make them appear, right? My initial response was that they should be using <pre> and not <code>.

Looking at the Pueblo specs, here is the spec for <pre>:

http://pueblo.sourceforge.net/doc/manual/html_pre.html

On that page, amongst other things, it says:


The Preformatted Text element presents blocks of text in fixed-width font, and so is suitable for text that has been formatted on screen.


    Within preformatted text:

  • Line breaks within the text are rendered as a move to the beginning of the next line.



However the spec for <code> is here:

http://pueblo.sourceforge.net/doc/manual/html_code.html


The CODE element indicates an example of code; and is rendered as monospaced text. Don't confuse this element with the <pre> element.


I stick to my response, the MUCK is incorrectly using <code> (monospaced font) when they should use <pre> (retain linebreaks).

Quote:

... they informed me they would have to do a recompile of protomuck in order to support PRE,


So? Recompiling a MUD/MUSH/MUCK is something the admins would normally do every week or so to fix problems (such as this one).

However in the event that they refuse to fix the problem (don't know how to, or refuse to, both of which would be very strange), then you can make a fix at the client end.

You could make a small plugin, that uses OnPluginPacketReceived to simply change <code> to <pre> (and </code> to </pre>) which would effectively fix the problem. If you need help doing that let me know, however I really think the MUCK should fix their Pueblo implementation, as every other player will have the same problem.

- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by Tricuspa   USA  (13 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #2 on Wed 19 Jul 2006 05:45 AM (UTC)
Message
Thanks Nick, I went ahead and sent this message to the code admin, hopefully they'll be able to take care of it!

Once again thanks for offering the time.
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Posted by Tricuspa   USA  (13 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #3 on Thu 20 Jul 2006 09:02 PM (UTC)
Message
This is the Coding wizard from MU-MUCK posting a few updates and clarifications to this thread.

1)Mr Gammon, either your forum needs some security checks, or Mr Tricuspa needs to not paste links that contain his login security information.

2)Mr Tricuspa is the ONLY player in our playerbase (of over 200 characters) who is reporting this problem to me. Upon checking, 25% of our playerbase uses Peublo without any incident they feel are worth bothering the coding/wizard staff about. Therefore, do I tell all them all to go get new client programs, or ask Mr Tricuspa to consider logging into the normal telnet port, which even he has admitted does not produce the errors? Granted, there is only basic color support on the Telnet port, but it works with MUSH Client without incident.

Peublo was originally created as a CLIENT by a group called Chaco Communications. This group disbanded, thus abandoning Peublo in 1996. Another group picked it up around 2001 and has been continuing it's development. Many SERVER codebases for online games (MUD, MUCK, MUSH, MOO, MUX) have the ability to support the Peublo extensions. Some by in-game soft code, others, such as ProtoMUCK (the codebase for MU-MUCK) support it natively in the server code. We chose Proto due to it's native support server side, and stability, freeing us from the need to recompile the server often, and freeing up space in-game code wise that would normally be spent by coders pulling out thier hair out trying to support the extensions.

Since the Peublo support is server side, NOT soft-code in game side, it is not possible without re-coding the server itself to alter the code/pre extension problem that seems to be causing Mr Tricuspa such issues. Suggestions for such a change can be made to the PROTOMUCK Development team. It may be easier for MUSHClient to provide a switch or setting for games such as our that have this error. I do not know which would be easier to implement.

I admire and support develompent of various client programs. It appears Mr Gammon has a good product in MUSHClient, but I ask myself if it geared more for MUSHes or more for general MU* servers, as many other client programs are. No program or client will ever be perfect, or be able to support everything 100%. I would personally suggest to Mr Tricuspa that he go with the Plugin route to solve his problem until such time as the ProtoMUCK Dev team or the MUSHClient dev team can look into the feasability of making this change to the core server or client code. That, or be willing to step back with those us in the proverbial stone age, and use the telent side of the world.

To Mr Gammon, if you wish to contact me for further information, or discussion, please feel free to log on as a guest and leave me a page mail. the 'wizzes' command will let you know which wizard I am, as this is a semi-public forum, and to a degree, I wish to protect my identity. Port 18888 is the Telent port just in case you need it.
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Posted by David Haley   USA  (3,881 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #4 on Thu 20 Jul 2006 09:39 PM (UTC)
Message
Quote:
or Mr Tricuspa needs to not paste links that contain his login security information
He probably gave you a link with his login information in it (or you are sitting at the same computer as he is, which doesn't seem to be the case). The forum software is quite secure.

Quote:
I would personally suggest to Mr Tricuspa that he go with the Plugin route to solve his problem until such time as the ProtoMUCK Dev team or the MUSHClient dev team can look into the feasability of making this change to the core server or client code.
It seems to me that Nick has actually done the "right" thing and implemented a client that respects the standard. It is quite likely that other clients do not fully respect that standard, which is why other players are not having this problem. I think it is very important to emphasize the fact that MUSHclient's behavior is not an error.

I feel that the best route to take would be two things:

1. suggest to ProtoMUCK that they fix their server. This really can't be that hard. I would be shocked if it were, actually.

2. Nick can implement a work-around to drop the client into non-standard-compliant mode in order to support servers that misbehave.
OR,
A plugin can be written to do the same thing. (I think this is preferable.)

David Haley aka Ksilyan
Head Programmer,
Legends of the Darkstone

http://david.the-haleys.org
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (21,321 posts)  [Biography] bio   Forum Administrator
Date Reply #5 on Thu 20 Jul 2006 10:35 PM (UTC)

Amended on Thu 20 Jul 2006 10:46 PM (UTC) by Nick Gammon

Message
Quote:

1)Mr Gammon, either your forum needs some security checks, or Mr Tricuspa needs to not paste links that contain his login security information.


To what are you referring? I can't see his login security information. This forum is a public forum, I'm not sure what you mean by security checks.

Quote:

... if you wish to contact me for further information, or discussion, please feel free to log on as a guest and leave me a page mail. the 'wizzes' command will let you know which wizard I am, ...


I don't really have time for guessing games. There are about 16 wizards listed, are you the "head wiz", the "Buildar [sic] of Might", the "builder of all things", or what?

Quote:

... it is not possible without re-coding the server itself to alter the code/pre extension problem that seems to be causing Mr Tricuspa such issues.


Most MUD admins are prepared to recompile their code if a bug is shown to be found. I have already explained that your MUCK is incorrectly using the <CODE> tag to cause linebreaks when it should be using the <PRE> tag, the information coming directly from the pueblo.sourceforge.net web site.

I'll show you what I am talking about. When you connect there is some initial information, it appeared in MUSHclient like this:


co guest guest
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Sun Sep 12 12:42 Don't Worry Be Happy.- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Wed Nov 3 09:47 Just a reminder to all players (and wizards): Read the news*regularly!* As in, whenever you log in, check for new posts. :) Justtype 'news' and it'll bring up anything you haven't read yet, onearticle at a time.- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -178001## You last connected from ...


Now I'm guessing this is supposed to look nicer, with linebreaks. Let's look at the actual data that is received:


Incoming packet: 5 (999 bytes)

<CODE>Sun Sep 12   3c 43 4f 44 45 3e 53 75 6e 20 53 65 70 20 31 32
 12:42.</CODE><C   20 31 32 3a 34 32 0d 3c 2f 43 4f 44 45 3e 3c 43
ODE>    Don't Wo   4f 44 45 3e 20 20 20 20 44 6f 6e 27 74 20 57 6f
rry Be Happy..</   72 72 79 20 42 65 20 48 61 70 70 79 2e 0d 3c 2f
CODE><CODE>- - -   43 4f 44 45 3e 3c 43 4f 44 45 3e 2d 20 2d 20 2d
 - - - - - - - -   20 2d 20 2d 20 2d 20 2d 20 2d 20 2d 20 2d 20 2d
 - - - - - - - -   20 2d 20 2d 20 2d 20 2d 20 2d 20 2d 20 2d 20 2d
 - - - - - - - -   20 2d 20 2d 20 2d 20 2d 20 2d 20 2d 20 2d 20 2d
 - - - - - - - -   20 2d 20 2d 20 2d 20 2d 20 2d 20 2d 20 2d 20 2d
 - - -.</CODE><C   20 2d 20 2d 20 2d 0d 3c 2f 43 4f 44 45 3e 3c 43
ODE>Wed Nov  3 0   4f 44 45 3e 57 65 64 20 4e 6f 76 20 20 33 20 30
9:47.</CODE><COD   39 3a 34 37 0d 3c 2f 43 4f 44 45 3e 3c 43 4f 44
E>    Just a rem   45 3e 20 20 20 20 4a 75 73 74 20 61 20 72 65 6d
inder to all pla   69 6e 64 65 72 20 74 6f 20 61 6c 6c 20 70 6c 61
yers (and wizard   79 65 72 73 20 28 61 6e 64 20 77 69 7a 61 72 64
s): Read the new   73 29 3a 20 52 65 61 64 20 74 68 65 20 6e 65 77
s.</CODE><CODE>*   73 0d 3c 2f 43 4f 44 45 3e 3c 43 4f 44 45 3e 2a


You can see from the incoming packet that all that the server code is sending is <CODE> ... some text ... </CODE>.

It isn't even sending linebreaks, or a newline. Now <CODE> simply says "switch to a monospaced font".

Somehow the server seems to be saying that it should cause "use a preformatted font, and make a linebreak whenever you see the </CODE> tag.".

Maybe the display looks OK with the Pueblo client - it wouldn't be the first time that a developer writes a client that totally ignores the spec. I don't know how other client authors are supposed to work when the spec is not followed by the people that write the spec.

Quote:

Mr Tricuspa is the ONLY player in our playerbase (of over 200 characters) who is reporting this problem to me. Upon checking, 25% of our playerbase uses Peublo without any incident they feel are worth bothering the coding/wizard staff about.


All you are saying is that of the 50-odd players who use Pueblo mode, only one has complained. This is hardly evidence there is no problem. Some may be using a different client, which may not be following the spec. Some may not think anything is wrong. You can read the information on the screen, it just looks messy. Maybe they think that is local atmosphere, or the way it is supposed to look. Of those that think it looks wrong some are probably too shy to say anything.

Anyway, I don't really have the energy to argue with you about it, as I doubt much will be done. Here is a plugin that anyone who uses your MUCK can install to fix the problem. :)

Copy between the lines, save to disk as Convert_code_to_pre.xml, and use the plugin installer in MUSHclient (File -> Plugins) to install that file.


<?xml version="1.0" encoding="iso-8859-1"?>
<!DOCTYPE muclient>
<!-- Saved on Friday, July 21, 2006, 7:40 AM -->
<!-- MuClient version 3.75 -->

<!-- Plugin "Convert_code_to_pre" generated by Plugin Wizard -->

<muclient>
<plugin
   name="Convert_code_to_pre"
   author="Nick Gammon"
   id="3a5eb2e81de87a4a90616807"
   language="Lua"
   purpose="Converts &lt;code&gt; tags to &lt;pre&gt; tags"
   date_written="2006-07-21 07:35:12"
   requires="3.67"
   version="1.0"
   >
<description trim="y">
<![CDATA[
Converts <code> tags in incoming packets to <pre> tags.
]]>
</description>

</plugin>

<!--  Script  -->

<script>
<![CDATA[
t = {
    ["<code>"] = "<pre>",
    ["<CODE>"] = "<pre>",
    ["</code>"] = "</pre><br>",
    ["</CODE>"] = "</pre><br>",
    ["<tt>"] = "<pre>",
    ["<TT>"] = "<pre>",
    ["</tt>"] = "</pre><br>",
    ["</TT>"] = "</pre><br>",
    }

function f (s)
  return t [s] or s
end -- f

function OnPluginPacketReceived (s)
  return (string.gsub (s, "</?%a+>", f))
end -- function OnPluginPacketReceived
]]>
</script>

</muclient>



After installing the plugin the initial message looks better, like this:


co guest guest
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Sun Sep 12 12:42
    Don't Worry Be Happy.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Wed Nov  3 09:47
    Just a reminder to all players (and wizards): Read the news
*regularly!* As in, whenever you log in, check for new posts. :) Just
type 'news' and it'll bring up anything you haven't read yet, one
article at a time.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
178726
## You last connected from ...

- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (21,321 posts)  [Biography] bio   Forum Administrator
Date Reply #6 on Thu 20 Jul 2006 10:44 PM (UTC)
Message
The last release of ProtoMuck was in May 4, 2003.

I'm guessing we aren't going to see a server-side change in a hurry.

- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (21,321 posts)  [Biography] bio   Forum Administrator
Date Reply #7 on Fri 21 Jul 2006 12:47 AM (UTC)

Amended on Fri 21 Jul 2006 12:48 AM (UTC) by Nick Gammon

Message
Just for fun I tried my copy of zMUD. The initial information looks like this:


co guest guest
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Sun Sep 12 12:42 Don't Worry Be Happy.- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -Wed Nov 3 09:47 Just a reminder to all players (and wizards): Read the news*regularly!* As in, whenever you log in, check for new posts. :) Justtype 'news' and it'll bring up anything you haven't read yet, onearticle at a time.- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -180034## You last connected from ...


So, zMUD doesn't work any better. Let's try a recommended client: SimpleMU ...

I gather that SimpleMU doesn't support Pueblo, as using the Pueblo port just gives heaps of tags, so I now use the port you suggested for telnet (18888):


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Sun Sep 12 12:42
    Don't Worry Be Happy.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Wed Nov  3 09:47
    Just a reminder to all players (and wizards): Read the news
*regularly!* As in, whenever you log in, check for new posts. :) Just
type 'news' and it'll bring up anything you haven't read yet, one
article at a time.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

<CODE>180125</CODE><CODE>[guest] Guest2 has connected.</CODE><CODE>## You last connected from ...</CODE><H1><HR>Cave of Awakening</H1>


Whoa! I am using the telnet port (and the first few lines look OK) but now I am getting <CODE> tags. There are some serious problems with this server.

- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (21,321 posts)  [Biography] bio   Forum Administrator
Date Reply #8 on Fri 21 Jul 2006 12:58 AM (UTC)

Amended on Fri 21 Jul 2006 01:01 AM (UTC) by Nick Gammon

Message
I tried with straight telnet (port 18888):


<CODE></CODE>
<TT>[<B>Exits&#32;&#32;&#32;</B>: <a xch_cmd="ooc" xch_hint="Go to OOC Nexus">OO
C room [OOC]</a> ]</TT>    


The server is bugged, admit it. This is supposed to be the port for non-Pueblo users.

Here is how to reproduce it, if you are interested.

Connect as a character (eg. guest) using the Pueblo port (18886). Then quit, and reconnect using the non-Pueblo port (18888). It seems to save the "pueblo" flag for the user "guest" so that some displays (not all) still show code tags.

Quote:

Suggestions for such a change can be made to the PROTOMUCK Development team.


Since I don't know your in-game name, and you have posted on my forum using someone else's login (I presume, by proxy) then I hereby suggest that the ProtoMUCK development team fix up their bugs.

If it helps, I have written a page on how to add MXP to a MUD server.

http://www.gammon.com.au/mushclient/addingservermxp.htm

- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by Tricuspa   USA  (13 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #9 on Tue 25 Jul 2006 03:55 AM (UTC)

Amended on Tue 25 Jul 2006 04:54 AM (UTC) by Tricuspa

Message
Thanks Nick for explaining the situation and offering a usuable solution too.

Sorry about the confusion I am sure the wiz appreciated having an anonymous/incognito voice on the forum. I'll go ahead and e-mail you privately their ID if you wish to pursue.

Once again thanks for your time, shame about the lack of a server side solution, such is the way of things, I suppose.

I wish the place luck if we can manage to keep folks coming, I think if others are looking forward to the Pueblo experience and don't use the main client they won't stick around long enough. I really do like the enhancements, nice change of pace from my usuals. It makes it a lot smoother moving and looking around.

I look forward to implementing the proposed temporary fix!
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Posted by Dhcavla   (1 post)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #10 on Wed 27 Jun 2007 03:20 PM (UTC)
Message
Is there any chance we can get a client side fix for this? Proto hasn't had a release in a long time, so I think it's unlikely we're going to see a server side fix.

MuMuck is NOT the only game with this problem, pretty much any one that run Protomuck has it.

I'd like to be able to use the pueblo port to view images and things.
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Posted by Shadowfyr   USA  (1,783 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #11 on Wed 27 Jun 2007 08:05 PM (UTC)
Message
There is a client side fix for this, its several posts up the thread and involves saving a plugin file, then loading that, which converts the "wrong" code tags into pre tags before the client actually processes them. Its at the end of the message from July 20, 2006, above.
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