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New wiki and forum for discussion of MUD standards

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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (21,322 posts)  [Biography] bio   Forum Administrator
Date Wed 24 Mar 2010 11:26 PM (UTC)

Amended on Tue 07 Apr 2015 01:28 AM (UTC) by Nick Gammon

Message

A wiki and forum have been set up at a new domain: mudstandards.org

(Edit: April 2015) Warning: Domain name abandoned. That site is now an adult products shop.

Currently various client and server developers are contributing ideas to the forum. In particular, various people from IRE, myself (MUSHclient), Zugg (cMUD), the Mudlet developers, as well as Lasher from Aardwolf.

The forum is currently inviting people with experience in coding MUD clients or servers to join the forum and contribute to the discussion.

More details are in the post from Jeremy Saunders here:

http://www.topmudsites.com/forums/mud-coding/6006-mudstandards-org.html

At present membership is by invitation only. If you want to join, register for the forum and send Jeremy an email at jeremy@mudstandards.org explaining who you are.

This forum is not intended for low-level details like "how do I get the MUD to compile" but rather to discuss present and future standards for MUD development. For example, a discussion is starting up about the ATCP protocol, which IRE have now released as an open format, so other MUDs can use it as well.


- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by David Haley   USA  (3,881 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #1 on Thu 25 Mar 2010 03:29 AM (UTC)
Message
Sounds like an interesting project -- let's hope some good stuff comes out of it. :) Out of curiosity, why is membership currently by invitation only? I would completely understand that the "decision making committee" be by invitation, but limiting simple participation seems contrary to several of the stated goals.

David Haley aka Ksilyan
Head Programmer,
Legends of the Darkstone

http://david.the-haleys.org
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Posted by Twisol   USA  (2,257 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #2 on Thu 25 Mar 2010 03:35 AM (UTC)
Message
Definitely looks really, really interesting.

David, based on Jeremy's post I assume there will be a public discussion section at some point... This is a new endeavor, I'm sure things need to start moving, get stabilized. I completely understand why they'd want to keep the wiki protected, though.

'Soludra' on Achaea

Blog: http://jonathan.com/
GitHub: http://github.com/Twisol
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Posted by Nick Cash   USA  (626 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #3 on Thu 25 Mar 2010 04:27 AM (UTC)
Message
I too think this is very interesting, but I also agree with David. Why make it invitation only? Keep the wiki protected, that is fine. However, it seems to me that discussion could freely occur on the forums, or at the very least make them viewable to the public.

~Nick Cash
http://www.nick-cash.com
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (21,322 posts)  [Biography] bio   Forum Administrator
Date Reply #4 on Thu 25 Mar 2010 04:39 AM (UTC)

Amended on Tue 07 Apr 2015 01:30 AM (UTC) by Nick Gammon

Message
Well this is a hot topic! It is also being raised on the mudstandards.org forum itself.

The initial thinking was that the sort of standards they are planning to develop are fairly technical (like MCCP, MSP) and that without a grounding in client or server development you wouldn't really be able to contribute much. Correct me if I am wrong.

I couldn't see the ordinary player wanting to get bogged down in stuff like "should we use Lua or JSON?" or "what is the maximum practical message size?" and the ones that would be interested would probably be quickly accepted into the forum.

But perhaps it would be self-selecting anyway, only interested parties would join, so why make it harder for them?

There has been a recent post of the mudstandards.org forum that making membership closed will make it look like some sort of commercial cabal. That was certainly never my intention. As you know MUSHclient and Mudlet are both open source.

What do you think? Would read-only membership be satisfactory? Or do you think that anyone interested enough to join, should be able to?

[EDIT] (April 2015) Warning: Domain name abandoned. That site is now an adult products shop.

- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by Twisol   USA  (2,257 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #5 on Thu 25 Mar 2010 04:46 AM (UTC)
Message
Nick Gammon said:
But perhaps it would be self-selecting anyway, only interested parties would join, so why make it harder for them?

I was thinking this very thing just now. I can be perfectly tolerant of some secrecy for now, considering it's a brand new endeavor, but in the long run I think a public section is a must

'Soludra' on Achaea

Blog: http://jonathan.com/
GitHub: http://github.com/Twisol
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (21,322 posts)  [Biography] bio   Forum Administrator
Date Reply #6 on Thu 25 Mar 2010 05:20 AM (UTC)
Message
I should point out too that Zugg's developers forums are invitation-only as well.

- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by Twisol   USA  (2,257 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #7 on Thu 25 Mar 2010 05:37 AM (UTC)
Message
Nick Gammon said:
I should point out too that Zugg's developers forums are invitation-only as well.

Aren't his forums more specific to his clients, though? I don't honestly know, I don't keep track of zMUD/CMUD stuff. It seems like the "MUD Standards" group is a bit bigger than that, anyways, given the kind of people who are involved from the start.

'Soludra' on Achaea

Blog: http://jonathan.com/
GitHub: http://github.com/Twisol
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Posted by David Haley   USA  (3,881 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #8 on Thu 25 Mar 2010 05:58 AM (UTC)
Message
I don't really see the point to secrecy when the point is to make open standards. (!!) I see the point in reducing noise, certainly, but not secrecy per se. Making it invitation-only gives it this somewhat odd 'exclusive club' feeling to me.

While I agree that clearly you couldn't contribute much to a technical discussion unless you had a technical background, I don't think people without a technical background would even be interested in such a discussion: hence why, as you said, it would be fairly self-selection.

Zugg's forums are different for several reasons, one of which is that it's a commercial enterprise, and as a related point it's not a place to develop open standards.

David Haley aka Ksilyan
Head Programmer,
Legends of the Darkstone

http://david.the-haleys.org
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Posted by Nick Cash   USA  (626 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #9 on Thu 25 Mar 2010 06:00 PM (UTC)
Message
I don't think there would be a huge number of people pining to sign up, so I don't see much harm in allowing forum registration to those people actually interested. As you said, it would be self-selective.

I think for a project like this you might as well as seek everyone interested because that group is likely to be small anyway. Thus, making it easy to sign up would encourage discussion; on the other hand, if it were invitation only a lot of people who might be interested may not bother pursuing it further.

~Nick Cash
http://www.nick-cash.com
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (21,322 posts)  [Biography] bio   Forum Administrator
Date Reply #10 on Thu 25 Mar 2010 09:36 PM (UTC)
Message
We seem to have reached agreement at this point for the forum to be read-only for everyone, and a writable "general" section. Once that is done (sometime today perhaps) you could always post your views about everything being writable (if you have such views) in the General section.

- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by Twisol   USA  (2,257 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #11 on Thu 25 Mar 2010 09:55 PM (UTC)
Message
Excellent! Thanks for keeping us updated.

'Soludra' on Achaea

Blog: http://jonathan.com/
GitHub: http://github.com/Twisol
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Posted by Conner   USA  (381 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #12 on Thu 25 Mar 2010 10:24 PM (UTC)
Message
Well, I was going to chime up about this too, but I think everything I was going to say has been said. For the record, count me as another vote for the notion that it'd be mostly self-selective because of the topic matter but that I fully understand the motivation for invitation only. Thank you (for a second time) for keeping us updated on this, it does sound like a very interesting topic and I'll be eagerly watching to se what it turns into.

-=Conner=-
--
Come test your mettle in the Land of Legends at telnet://tcdbbs.zapto.org:4000
or, for a little family oriented medieval fun, come join us at The Castle's Dungeon BBS at telnet://tcdbbs.zapto.org
or, if you just want information about either, check our web page at http://tcdbbs.zapto.org
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Posted by Samson   USA  (683 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #13 on Fri 26 Mar 2010 04:42 AM (UTC)
Message
This sounds like a great idea to me. One place to have all of these different protocols available certainly helps when looking for information on how to implement them.

Is the site going to cover only things like MCCP/MXP/MSP or is it open to other things such as IMC2?

SmaugMuds.org: http://www.smaugmuds.org - The Smaug MUDs Community Center

"The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie became truth." -- George Orwell, 1984
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (21,322 posts)  [Biography] bio   Forum Administrator
Date Reply #14 on Fri 26 Mar 2010 05:13 AM (UTC)
Message
I presume anything relevant to MUDs would be welcome.

- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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