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A way to inform the server of the client fore/background-colours

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Posted by David Haley   USA  (3,881 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #15 on Wed 11 Nov 2009 10:35 PM (UTC)
Message
Xtian said:
David Haley: I don't agree that MUD shouldn't do colour formatting at all. The reason being: I want things to look good. If I need to have every player set a special colour to special tagged events himself, most of them won't bother to do this (because they will not get it or won't read the corresponding announcement, etc). It would be like saying every web-user should write his own default css-stylesheet.
On the other hand, if I define a default colour for the event -> well then we're doing colour-formatting again and will run into the problems mentioned above.

I think you might have kind of missed my point. I didn't mean that there should be no colors, nor did I say to make everything colorless by default and force players to set all the colors themselves. It's nothing like telling everybody to write their own stylesheet. It's like writing a bunch of stylesheets, and then letting them choose which one they want, and furthermore letting them customize it if they feel like it.

Basically this whole affair seems like quite a bit of overkill, when a simple question could be asked during creation (before you use any colors at all): "do you have a light or dark background?" From there, let them play more with colors using your provided schemes, and their ability to customize if they feel like it. In particular I believe that this statement is incorrect:
"So going from there to a fully automated procedure is a rather trivial step and not overcomplicated."

If it were trivial, we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place. It's not trivial, because now all clients need to be able to handle this negotiation. It's not trivial, because the client might report something, making the MUD server do something that the player didn't want. And so forth.
Creating standards that a whole pile of clients have to start respecting is never trivial, even if the basic idea is simple.
David Haley aka Ksilyan
Head Programmer,
Legends of the Darkstone

http://david.the-haleys.org
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Posted by Cage_fire_2000   USA  (119 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #16 on Thu 12 Nov 2009 02:02 AM (UTC)
Message
David Haley said:

Xtian said:
David Haley: I don't agree that MUD shouldn't do colour formatting at all. The reason being: I want things to look good. If I need to have every player set a special colour to special tagged events himself, most of them won't bother to do this (because they will not get it or won't read the corresponding announcement, etc). It would be like saying every web-user should write his own default css-stylesheet.
On the other hand, if I define a default colour for the event -> well then we're doing colour-formatting again and will run into the problems mentioned above.

I think you might have kind of missed my point. I didn't mean that there should be no colors, nor did I say to make everything colorless by default and force players to set all the colors themselves. It's nothing like telling everybody to write their own stylesheet. It's like writing a bunch of stylesheets, and then letting them choose which one they want, and furthermore letting them customize it if they feel like it.

Basically this whole affair seems like quite a bit of overkill, when a simple question could be asked during creation (before you use any colors at all): "do you have a light or dark background?" From there, let them play more with colors using your provided schemes, and their ability to customize if they feel like it. In particular I believe that this statement is incorrect:
"So going from there to a fully automated procedure is a rather trivial step and not overcomplicated."

If it were trivial, we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place. It's not trivial, because now all clients need to be able to handle this negotiation. It's not trivial, because the client might report something, making the MUD server do something that the player didn't want. And so forth.
Creating standards that a whole pile of clients have to start respecting is never trivial, even if the basic idea is simple.


Well said, I think that mostly sums it up.
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (22,975 posts)  [Biography] bio   Forum Administrator
Date Reply #17 on Thu 12 Nov 2009 04:49 AM (UTC)
Message
I haven't seen any posts that seem related to this on the Zugg forums. Have you made one? Are you going to post on the cMud or zMud section?

I doubt that Zugg will make changes of that sort to zMud, as he is now mainly supporting cMud, which means that a client which is still in fairly general use will not support your proposed idea.
- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (22,975 posts)  [Biography] bio   Forum Administrator
Date Reply #18 on Sat 14 Nov 2009 08:31 PM (UTC)
Message
Have you seen this?

http://forums.zuggsoft.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=34261

Zugg seems to have already covered finding out the text and background colours.
- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by Cage_fire_2000   USA  (119 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #19 on Sat 14 Nov 2009 09:07 PM (UTC)

Amended on Sat 14 Nov 2009 09:08 PM (UTC) by Cage_fire_2000

Message
Nick Gammon said:

Have you seen this?

http://forums.zuggsoft.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=34261

Zugg seems to have already covered finding out the text and background colours.


Uhm, I can't open that, it gives me a login screen, and I'm not creating an account on a forum I'll probably never use again, just to read a post. I don't care much anyway, other than idle curiosity.
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Posted by Nick Gammon   Australia  (22,975 posts)  [Biography] bio   Forum Administrator
Date Reply #20 on Sat 14 Nov 2009 10:44 PM (UTC)
Message
Xtian said:

Ok, I moved my suggestion to Zugg's development forums. We will see how it goes.


Well I assumed that Xtian would be able read that page, and he is the one that cares about the subject.
- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com
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Posted by Xtian   (53 posts)  [Biography] bio
Date Reply #21 on Fri 20 Nov 2009 05:49 PM (UTC)
Message
Yes, thanks, I'm back and just had the time to fill up on the newest developments. To sum it up for the others: Zugg includes my colour requests into a broader image where the server may request different client features or options (over MXP). This is exactly what other mudadmins and I have a (more or less badly maintained) client-feature database for and it would be great to be able to get this data automatically (i.e. reliably).

To finish up on the other recent posts, please forgive that I am repeating myself:
Better than asking a user for his client-fg/bg colour is to have a standard set already defined for every client (as in the database mentioned above).
Better than that is the availability of that data as supplied by the client (that way it would also be current).

If the mudlib can already handle colour schemes and picking of a good default scheme dependent on user interaction (or the client TTYPE), then it would only be trivial to add the automatic request mentioned above - trivial on the server side. This is what I meant a few posts back.

Of course getting a multitude of clients and servers to implement and adhere to a new standard is not trivial. But that was why I posted the thread in the first place, wasn't it?

Comment: Even if this works, for old clients we will still have to use the old way and more or less guess the data.
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