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Greetings from a lurker!

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Posted by

Jaileigh (3 posts) Bio

Date

Sun 26 Mar 2006 01:44 PM (UTC)

Message

I just wanted to take the time to say thank you to all the helpful posts i have read and reread over the last month. Smaug is starting to make sense now :)

I am now at a transition phase. To read code I get a general idea of what is happening, been able to tweak some things, add snippets by following directions, and remove some things without completely crashing my mud.

I have some books, and working with websites to broaden my programming knowledge. I know want to be able to learn how to pick apart my mud, and create new aspects to it!

So my question is.. how do i make transition from being able to somewhat read code, and tweak it. To understanding it and being able to better manipulate it to my needs. Time and practice? Seek out a mentor to answer all my silliest questions? Or just keep lurking here and hopefully one day a bright white lightbulb appears over my head and i say 'By Geirge I thinks I got it!'

Once again thank you all for our previous posts, its made my waddle though learning to program and create a mud much brighter :)

Jaileigh

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Posted by

David Haley USA (3,881 posts) Bio

Date

Reply #1 on Sun 26 Mar 2006 02:14 PM (UTC)

Message

I think a combination of all of the above is the best way to learn. :-) Practice is always important. Your successes teach you, but your failures will teach you too, perhaps even more -- assuming you try to understand why things didn't work.

It's very good that you have books and are reading them; that's something most people don't do and it's a really big help.

Asking questions here is a good idea. Generally speaking, the more precise they are, the better the answer you get will be; it will be easier to answer the question, and you will likely learn more from it.

You have three main challenges at this point:
1) Understanding the SMAUG architecture beyond the basics
2) Understanding subtleties of the C language that make things work in certain ways
3) Understanding general programming principles and concepts, like linked lists, hash tables, memory management, etc.

I assume that you've started on all three of those. Now it's just a question of working on it.

It takes people years and years to get really good -- so don't get discouraged if things don't click overnight. :-) Just keep at it, and good luck!

David Haley aka Ksilyan
Head Programmer,
Legends of the Darkstone

http://david.the-haleys.org

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Posted by

Jaileigh (3 posts) Bio

Date

Reply #2 on Sun 26 Mar 2006 09:08 PM (UTC)

Message

Thank you for the upbeat response! I will keep tackling the 3 main challenges, but sometimes feel like I have taken to much.

It has been fun though, and will keep plowing through it. Quick little memory.. my first mud crash... I yell 'Arggg it crashed', my 3 yr old son says.. 'Boo-Boo Mommy?' and he kisses the computer to make it all better. If only it was so easy!

Br prepared for a million and one questions!

Jaileigh

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Posted by

Conner USA (381 posts) Bio

Date

Reply #3 on Tue 28 Mar 2006 03:41 AM (UTC)

Message

*LOL* That's great! We all need a 3 year old who can kiss the computer to make it all better. :)

We'll be here when your questions start pouring in, and we'll help where we can. Just don't get frustrated and give up on us. :)

-=Conner=-
--
Come test your mettle in the Land of Legends at telnet://tcdbbs.zapto.org:4000
or, for a little family oriented medieval fun, come join us at The Castle's Dungeon BBS at telnet://tcdbbs.zapto.org
or, if you just want information about either, check our web page at http://tcdbbs.zapto.org

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Posted by

Jaileigh (3 posts) Bio

Date

Reply #4 on Tue 28 Mar 2006 10:49 AM (UTC)

Message

Well here comes my first major set of questions! Is there a place in the web that has a list of common compiling errors and warnings, with explanations to what it means, and suggestions on what is needed to fix?

Some I have been able to understand, others I search forums and try searching for that error. Again not really understanding what the error is telling me, but fixing it slightly.

Next question, I am using Smaugfuss1.7 can i make snippets to work from early versions of smaug. Again I have some that worked. Ones giving me a problem.. it calls for additions in ibuild.c and grub.c. These files were not in my makefile, but i see earlier versions have them in those makefiles. Have they been renamed in fuss? Or added to another file?

And slightly off topic, but i figured you friendly folk may be able to answer. I read all over mud programing forums about the advantages of *nix, and I use linux shell with web hosting. My question is, how kid friendly is it? Mind you, it might be an excuse not to let the kids play on my computer *snickers*.

Any answers are greatly appreciated! Also well as any insight, advice, critisms etc. Just don't tell me to give up! ;)

Thanks!
Jaileigh

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Posted by

Conner USA (381 posts) Bio

Date

Reply #5 on Tue 28 Mar 2006 05:22 PM (UTC)

Amended on Tue 11 Mar 2008 03:30 AM (UTC) by Nick Gammon

Message

Let's see what I can do about answering these questions, then I'll turn the reins over to others to see what they say for you...

I haven't found a place on the web yet that lists C compiler errors as such, but there are a bunch of sites that have helpful information. Check wikipedia for a few, but your best bet is to watch which ones you get, ask about them, and remember what folks tell you they meant. (Notes are a good idea, particularly in the beginning.)

Yes, you can. In fact, you can often times make snippets from other diku/merc based codebase (ROM seems especially close), but that doesn't mean that you won't have to 'fix' things about the snippets to make them work, even with the best written of them there have been changes in the SmaugFUSS package that are very significant. I can't say that I recall there ever having been an ibuild.c, but there still is a build.c.. so you might try to use grep from the command line to locate what it's telling you to change from. (Do something like 'grep -il do_mset *' while you're in your src folder, for example.) Grub was pulled out of SmaugFUSS altogether, so you won't find it. (I'm running SmaugFUSS 1.6.031506 myself... *chuckle* Which means that I started with Smaug 1.02 and upgraded via codebase swapping all the way to SmaugFUSS 1.4 and then manually did all the code fixes from the SmaugFUSS forums (http://forums.smaugfuss.org) to date except for a couple of the ones that would allow me to call mine SmaugFUSS 1.7 and then I've also made tons of other changes myself and added a huge list of other snippets, so I just established my own version number for my code.)

A linux shell is not very kid friendly, it's a lot of reading, typing, and memorizing commands. It's a great learning evironment though. But I'd use it as an excuse to keep the kids off your computer except when directly supervised. Now, on the other hand, if you were going to install linux locally and use the gnome or kde desktop, it's pretty close to being as kid friendly as windows ever was, or mac for that matter. In some ways, it can be more so because it's harder to crash it and more controlled about requiring root password to use anything that could cause overt harm, though there are still somethings that can be a pain in the kester to repair if you let someone just go nuts. ;)

Otherwise, as far as any critisisms, advice, insights, etc go... I'd never tell you to give up. I'd say you made a wise choice in selecting SmaugFUSS 1.7 rather than Smaug 1.4a or some other codebase that isn't as widely supported. Beyond that, keep asking and hopefully our answers will be helpful. :)

[EDIT - 11 March 2008] - The Smaug FUSS site is now http://www.smaugmuds.org/

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Posted by

Nick Gammon Australia (23,173 posts) Bio Forum Administrator

Date

Reply #6 on Tue 28 Mar 2006 08:36 PM (UTC)

Amended on Tue 28 Mar 2006 08:37 PM (UTC) by Nick Gammon

Message

Quote:

So my question is.. how do i make transition from being able to somewhat read code, and tweak it.

I strongly advise you to try some simple C programs - anything that interests you really, like doing a times table, or temperature conversion chart or something - just to get familiar with the general programming techniques, and get to know error messages.

Changing code "slightly" to make errors go away, can be a mistake, if you don't understand what the message is getting at. You might simply transfer the problem from a compile-time error to a run-time error.

Programming is fun, certainly, and will be even more fun if you start with the simpler stuff and work your way up. Smaug isn't too bad, but there is a lot of it. Have fun with it! :)

- Nick Gammon

www.gammon.com.au, www.mushclient.com

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Posted by

Tzaro USA (41 posts) Bio

Date

Reply #7 on Thu 06 Apr 2006 08:47 AM (UTC)

Message

WOOHOO! My first post on Nick's amazingly helpful forum!

I'd like to address your question regarding linux vs winblows. I, personally, don't know too much about linux. I know just enough shell commands to get me by with my mud and that's about it. If this is your only experience with *nix systems, I highly suggest downloading and running a version of linux and comparing the two. At first, it's extremely frustrating. In the end, you'll not want to go back.
Windows has a lot more driver support and programs. Things look more pleasant on windows than on linux. When looking for something cosmetically pleasing, windows is your choice. But lets take a look at what makes linux so great!
As the years go by, more people are unleashing the power of linux. They are slowly learning the endlessness of *nix based systems. Even Microsoft is catching on to this trend and have been working diligently to compensate for their shortcomings. There are countless numbers of linux-based programs being ported to the windows world; Mozilla Firefox, Openoffice.org, GAIM... Linux is slowly but surely making it's statement.
Linux is more stable than Windows. You can modify it to whatever extent you wish. Best of all, there are virtually no viruses for linux. You can configure your linux box to make a potential virus impossible to infect your system. Also, to slightly hinder one of my previous comments, linux is cosmetically looking better with every new release.
You'll run into a few problems owning just a Linux computer, especially having children. While you can get most windows applications to run on linux (or find a program that'll work in its place), there is always that chance your child will benefit most by having a windows computer. I would suggest, if you have the diskspace, to attempt a 'dual boot'. You can choose which OS you'd like to boot into when you start your computer up. I do it with nearly all of my systems and will continue doing so until Mr. Gammon comes out with a perfect MUSHclient for linux. :) a quick FYI: You'll have to install windows BEFORE installing linux. Partition the HD at the time of windows installation or you can partition the drive using something like partition magic after windows is installed. Give it a shot, there's nothing to lose by having a dual-boot computer setup :)

I wish you the best,
Tzaro

Implementer of Lost Prophecy,
Tzaro

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